There were absolutely people who lived in their carrel. Now, there are some situations that require registration. I once had a boss who would tell people with transportation issues Its not my fault you chose to live there when none of us peons could have afforded to live closer to the major metropolitan office. Is everything okay? Listen to what he says, then you can figure out whether/how this needs to be escalated. I know my boss occasionally changes into workout clothes in his office, and I know one of the folks I manage goes into our little conference room to pump. One of the maintenance crew night shift was in there, doing her job of scrubbing the toilets, and she started screaming. Befriended a guy in the same dorm who let me crash on his spare bed. I worked with someone who had an apartment nearby, yet was a workaholic and seemed to think that it was more efficient to sleep in his cubicle, use the gym facilities for showering, and eat out. I cant think of any scenario where this is a good idea. I feel bad for the guy, but he needs to do something and get an actual place to live. Everything else is basically speculation reasonable speculation, but speculation. Im a teacher and cant afford rent in my city without a roommate. It turns out that leadership is aware of his living situation. This could get the company in big legal trouble if someone outside finds out youre staying here, so Im going to have to let the new CEO know tomorrow The tone and expression would be calm but concerned. Their insurance company would cancel or non-renew them and the landlord would never approve it. Given OPs comment about Bob making a deliberate lifestyle choice, I am very firmly AGAINST approaching him directly at this point. Ive noticed this going on, can we make sure Bob is okay? Sounds interesting. But its also possible that no one knows since most of your coworkers are still working remotely. Additional note: the people Ive seen (or heard about) who do this are not people who cant afford housing. Fire codes arent just about having a window from which one can escape; they also set the standards for the materials of construction, alarms, and wiring. Does she know hes sleeping there? As a former insurance agent, I can tell you that it is unacceptable from an insurance standpoint. The Terminal is loosely based off of the story of Mehran Karimi Nasseri (aka Sir Alfred Mehran), who lived in Charles de Gaulle Airport for 18 years. Now its possible that the issue has been assessed / remediated. The OP isnt 100% sure hes living at the office, but I dont really see a world where she is responsible for the companys liability issues, should they ever come up. It smelled not great. Talking to him would make reporting it even harder, and to be honest, regardless of his reasons, if his superiors dontt know, they need to be told. What happens when a business relocates to new premises? Im pretty sure it is standard practice to check for occupants at a fire scene no matter what. I strongly feel that when its very possibly a matter of company liability versus someones housing its a moment to focus on the potential consequences to a person, not a corporate entity. Being forced to live at the office would be unpleasant and undoubtedly a bad trend, especially if its just a tactic to squeeze more work out of employees. It came to a head when a younger female colleague walked in on him in his boxers and finally went to HR. He moved for a new job and briefly thought of doing it again but didnt. Right now, Bob may not be fired outright and be given resources to help him transition. In some places there are laws that make living in your van quite difficult because of overnight parking rules. Retiring early is a laudable ambition, and it hurts no one. A lot of companies in the mountains do this but reported wages dont take it into account so the numbers look lower than they actually are. I dont see empathy and safety being two exclusive issues here- it can be a both and. Reading in his office with the door closed in the evening, or even changing his clothes, does not harm anyone who is also in the office. If so, you can structure the compensation system to pay only for actual time worked. OP, are you sure Bobs living *in* the office and not like, in a van down by the river? Weve had letters here about workplaces where the thing that was making somebody uncomfortable was a visible cold sore, the shape of someones body post-mastectomy, or their coworkers having names they thought were weird. Plus, from a safety standpoint, its another huge risk. Since OP hasnt talked to Bob directly, he hasnt had a chance to say, I would prefer not to.. He had a few people joke about him probably living in the car, but I think they were actually jealous that he could go snooze during the downtime! Crimefighters need not apply, according to two recently fired employees from an Atlanta store. They dont need to make sure that the company makes a particular decision. its not just a question of empathy or who bob is hurting, its a very real question of what happens if theres a multiple building fire at 3am and the building manager tells fire services the building is empty, and then they focus their search efforts elsewhere based on that info?. It is a little odd to me that the obvious solution is to be passive-agreement. With all due respect to the well-meaning people who want to protect Bob, if you are not a housing provider/landlord, you have no idea of the issues involved (city, county and state level). Honestly, I might shop this by talking about knowing of this happening somewhere else and asking how we would handle something like that if it happened here. I mean, if I were Bob in this situation, I wouldnt take the offer to help as a serious one, given that its sandwiched between a cruel joke and then a threat to run to management to complain about my situation. I am so sorry you had to go through this. They sued, alleging they should have been paid for all their on-duty time. True, but the fire codes for a residential high-rise are different from office towers (and vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, not just from state to state). Yes. to stay there temporarily above-board or to get Bob into suitable temporary lodging). We couldnt live there, but IIRC, could spend up to 5 days in a row. I think its pretty well known in DC that a lot of Congress-people sleep in their offices because they cant afford DC rent plus their mortgages/rents back in their home districts, or they just dont want to pay it twice when they dont have to. We all had keys and there was no security system, so hed just have to get ready for work before anyone else arrived. A bad situation could mean a lot of things. There is no such thing as a Federal rental license. I guess Im in the minority here but I would absolutely consider this neither my business nor my problem. Dont know that this really changes anything but it does seem like a mark in the, this is not a safe thing to do, column. https://consumerist.com/2007/10/03/man-builds-secret-apartment-at-mall-gets-away-with-it-for-four-years/. At most large companies Ive worked at the policy on anything that goes against company policies, the rule is see something, say something. LW, if your management doesnt take action, call you city rental license office anonymously. I met a guy at work who traveled all the time to different customer locations. He is expected to report to work at 7:00 am, when Mr. Norton's daughter departs for work, and to stay until she returns in the evening, usually at 8:00 pm. If he died in a fire at night or something I would feel bad. Yeah, this is how I read this. I do hope that companies that hire bus services build into their contracts that the drivers should be paid fairly. Theres a certain type of minimalist who is ostensibly turning a vehicle into a delightful tiny house, but in the interim surfing the spare beds/couches of any friend who will still let them stay. The OP says nothing. The Isners could watch television, read, surf the Internet and engage in other activities but had to remain in the apartment so they could respond to alarms. He explains that he cant afford one, and the company helps him find the appropriate social service agencies. And if something happens to the building in the middle of the night, someone needs to know a person is in there. I think in LWs position Id pretend not to notice. Its a societal failure, in my eyes, that we let anyone go homeless but the truth is is that OP is not responsible for Bob, and turning a blind eye to Bobs squatting wont fix the societal issues at play. If he gets a communicable disease then hes not going to be able to avoid spreading it, short of moving into a hotel temporarily. Yes he might still deny it or blame you, but youll have got across the exact message you intend. Because the company will only do whats best for them 100% of the time. They dont get a say in how Bob spends the money they pay him. I think talking to him could help, too. The company paid them for all time spent responding to alarms, but not for the rest of the time they spent in the apartment. Okay, thanks for passing that on.. ). A security guard ran in and the guy got detained until our management showed up. I said I wasnt offended at all, it was good there were decent people about and I could easily have needed his help. I mean yes, I would ask what he was doing that made her uncomfortable. But the OP has no way to know that. So, youre letting four formerly homeless families occupy your properties free of charge? If OP is stopping in to do work outside normal working hours and Bob is out of the office, then you have to look at whether his being there will incur liability for the company. In my building there are large cubicle farms with private offices along the walls. I wonder if Bob is like one of those food thieves discussed last week. There were a lot of comments that the women who wanted access to their office were throwing him out on the street. -Bob is sometimes in his office but not working Sometimes its just the building folks being super strict and sometimes there is a genuine reason for it, like a previous fire. ET. Were not even an hour in and these comments are depressing af. I love your wording! Overnight seems like an obvious hard no, but evening hours are a little fuzzier. The guys (ex? Prices are set by the wealthy who have luxury vacation cabins and folks who work in the towns cannot afford to live where they work. I give total pass (and have been thru) to theres a hurricane outside, Im hunkering down till after it passes. Not right, not fair, but based on my own experience, the idea that your paycheck is not enough to provide you housing is met only with defensiveness, condescension and disdain. There could be liability concerns if youre in the office after hours, and we should let the appropriate people know if thats the case. I would just want to let Bob know this is a problem, he might say Oh yeah no it was just last week, I finished my project and you wont see me anymore. He might say Oh yeah I live here. Who knows? We had an issue like this at my work, sort of. Few people took the express elevator, and no one even noticed the closet because they were fixated in going down the hall to their office. Well, the OP updated and says that management actually IS aware that hes there. Who is he hurting exactly? Yeah, but then its your own homeowners insurance and not the companys policy. [2] Or he could have split from his partner or simply decided this was more cost-effective while no one else was coming in anyway, or who knows what. We met with our (creepy and thankfully no longer in office) Congressman, who, instead of talking about issues, showed us the Murphy bed he kept in his office and told us how much he saved by sleeping at the office . I dont think thats a great idea if hes genuinely in a rough spot right now and has permission. I dunno, I think if a commercial building was burning badly after hours and nobody was supposed to be inside, Im not sure theyd send firefighters inside it just to double-check, honestly. If he lived here, and was contributing to housing already for a a partner he is separated from as many commenters have theorized, yes, he probably could not afford a second place for himself. If the guy is dealing with a temporary situation like a divorce, Id leave it alone, but it sounds like this guy was a permanent resident of his van until he decided his office was more comfortable. MYOB. He would come to work early or stay late to shower; other than that, he would occasionally use the office to heat something up. Theres fire codes specifically about stoves, which an employee kitchen may not have, and bedrooms, which Im certain the office does not have. Im just suggesting that wording as an opening into the discussion with the higher ups et al that raises the concern without judgement or stating a solution before the facts are acquired. Updated June 30, 2020: Video Surveillance Laws by State Video surveillance laws differ greatly from state to state. The podcast 99 Percent Invisible has an excellent episode about it, called The Accidental Room. What's the best choice for your business data? But hes happy and it works for him! We really dont know enough.). Unless he has approval, he cant live there. Ok, I know this wasnt your call or anything, but do you really think stopping him from living on-campus in a tent meant anything other than he had to live off-campus in a tent? (Ultimately, he ended up getting PPP funding, most of our services qualified as essential, and we kept everyone employed, but still), Fast-forward to August 2020 when my partner suffered a serious spinal cord injury and ended up hospitalized in Colorado, paralyzed from the waist down. If hes trapped in there and nobody knows he was in there in the first place, who could possibly save him?). That said, Im really not sure why the move here isnt to justask Bob directly before going behind his back to air suspicions with HR or another boss. Basically its outside norms, and were uncomfortable when were reminded someone physically close to us is behaving outside norms. When Im on the island for work, I park at our office/shop and some days, my morning alarm clock is our crew showing up for work. But would a lawyer go after one employee in particular rather than the whole company? Multiple members of Congress live in their offices, and its hard to argue that they arent well compensated. The company says its not our problem. The company gave him some time to transition but made it clear that after secretly living in a shared office and the boxers incident, he needed to resign relatively rapidly. Could actually be financial hardship. Fortunately, there are no kids involved, but God knows in what awful situation he might be in. Mostly because OP has only been there a couple of months and doesnt really know all the ins and outs of the office. Yes, like the people who think that a mother storing breastmilk in the fridge is icky, when breastmilk is classified as food rather than a bodily fluid. You need to be sure about the situation. Do you have a way to learn if he needs help without asking? I cant give a hard time when Bob needs to be out for genuine company concerns like insurance coverage and lease clauses. OP, is there a COO? I agree. I really think this needs to be handled if EAP exists at this company you can define send Bob their way for resources but 99.9% of all corporate buildings just are not set up to safely and legally house a person long term*. This homeless partimer had everything going for him. There could be a night janitor, someone working very late or early, etc. I admit Id leave it alone unless it affects me and I dont want to deal with any retaliation. All were touted as great ideas to help save money and get you closer to freedom., Several years ago, my local paper reported on people living in a similar way but to cut down on environmental impact. He got an apartment when he brought his kids here and Im happy to say that his wife and her kids are here now. They just chose not to do that. And that closet was outside of the security doors. This is the most challenging situation for many property managers and requires carefully screening employees before initiating this policy. It can definitely be approached with compassion- but ultimately the company needs to know for the well being of all the employees there, not just Bob. An intern walks in on Bob in his underwear and quits. He was fired. On a related note about compassion, amazing bosses, living in vans, and doing the best you can under challenging circumstances, Ill share that Ive been not-at-all secretly living in a van at my place of work off and on for the past year, though the details are a bit different. Our senior leaders would be expected to do something if they found out an employee was potentially homeless and living in the building. But they arent doing anything wrong by changing in a private office (assuming closed door, no windows, and steps taken to avoid someone walking right in and getting an unasked for eyeful). That said, he really cant do it without getting permission, so the OP needs to let management know whats going on. Was a fascinating watch. And I really doubt Bob would be fired hed just be told to find somewhere else to live. An ad hominem argument would be responding to you as a person (e.g. A sinkhole could open up unexpectedly and if it wasnt during work hours, no one would know to search the empty building. I feel sorry for Bob. Living in a van, and cooking/showering from office is not a prospect that most people would embrace enthusiastically. It was discovered when the vending machine people would mention to the facilities Admin they saw someone late at night in the building. He would technically say that he lives in his van. If, all things considered, the thing really is harmless, then yes, the correct response is to get over the discomfort. That isnt to say not to be sympathetic to the employee, but the potential collateral consequences here arent great. Very few people would respond to do you ever go home lol with a serious no I live here now, the CEO has okayed it and its all legal. I thought they should stuff it. He showered at the school gym and ate a lot of cold, shelf-stable food. If there were a fire in one of the main buildings in the middle of the night, the FD wouldnt necessarily know to go looking for people in the building so it was a safety issue. It might look like she never leaves when she works late and comes in early to shower before work. In Australia, LW would almost certainly have a legal duty to act. I agree that he could be in trouble if theres a fire. OP speaks up. Theres also lots of reasons this might not be a health/safety/security issue. They can guess, perhaps plausibly, but they dont really know that. I am now wondering if this is happening more than people are aware of. She had a gym membership where she showered. But it seems like some employers in the tech world were going that way pre-pandemic, with all the on-site amenities they provided. Thats just word of mouth, though. He was employed, housed, and healthy. ^ according to wikipedia, it appears he could have left after a few years but was refusing to sign papers- seems he had some mental health issues as well. I dont want to make waves because I am so new, but I also cant stop thinking about this. WebMedicare taxes are levied on all employee wages at a 2.9% rate. Is this an intentional lifestyle choice? If the OP wants to tell on Bob, the OP has that option, but if they are questioned about it for sure OP can plausibly say that they knew nothing for sure. He is not clearly in a bad situation and desperate. For one thing, the rate of burn for construction materials in an office tower is very different than from what it would be for a residence (and IIRC, lower). If youre saving money by pushing off your personal responsibilities onto unknowing parties? I dont want to put it out there about the reasons why its happening, when the solution is that: Bob probably cannot stay there and someone needs to be told he is. Its possible management is a-okay with this and hes not secretly living there. (And since it took months for anyone to notice, they must have been pretty quiet and well-behaved.) My ex-nephew-in-law parked an RV in the Tesla HQ parking lot and lived in it when he worked there. Which only matters if the company is actually renting the space out to Bob. So that was a fun month of my life. Thats not true. I was really surprised by some of the comments about how Bob might end up on the street if the OP outs him to someone at a senior level at their company. No one would have a problem with him living in his van, if he was actually do that. I believe there are more than a few members of Congress who live in their offices while in the district. And if thats the case, the organization really does need to know for safety and legal reasons, if nothing else. Sometimes it appears he has just woken up. Is this ringing any bells for anyone? Why would you assume thats not enough to get basic housing? Certainly Bob is an adult ( a senior manager at that ) and any risk involved is his to take at his discretion. I had a coworker who moved from about 4 hours away to take a job with my company. If the van is right there, with a sleeping bag in it, then sleeping in the vicinity of the van, but indoors probably feels like it counts. If he needs assistance or support EAP (if available) may be a really good option but so long as this is going unnoticed, there are potential problems for all the employees- not just Bob. Reporting from Miami. Ive read many times about people living in shopping malls, etc. Living in Vail/Aspen/Breckenridge/etc is terribly expensive for folks who are ill-paid (at best). An additional charge applies if the living accommodation that is provided to the employee costs more than 75,000. At least not directly. Maybe Im more sensitive to how homelessness typically looks (hint: its not just, oh i live on the street now), so it doesnt occur to other people on how framing this as something hes doing just for fun is really problematic. He didnt work there, and would just fold up the lounger before dawn and leave, then come back during the evening when no one was around. Yeah you can always pretend to be really dozy/unobservant. We just slept on the floor all four of us. Alison is spot on, if the higher ups know, they will tell her because she needs to know as part of the higher ups. Just, idk. Which means your discomfort is yours to manage, not theirs to manage. People quickly worked it out and he was told by the boss that he had to stop we all knew the office alarm code and he was leaving work at the appropriate time but then coming back a couple of hours later and switching off the alarm so he could stay in the office overnight, which was obviously a huge breach of the office security and would have led to the insurance policy being invalid if anyone had broken in or there had been a fire or whatever. Do you require some employees to live on the premises so they can be on call to provide emergency or other services? The OP speaks up, management talks with Bob, Bob spends his after-work time in his van or public places. It could be a problem for their insurance. You might learn something. The summer camp I used to be a counselor at would have people staying up all hours and falling asleep in all the buildings all over the place (it was a very loosey-goosey kind of camp). It would be odd and not ok without clear agreement to say run a client-facing business out of your shared apartment and expect your housemates to work around foot traffic and give you priority for internet bandwidth and printing.). Whether or not OP could legally get in trouble for not informing them of their suspicions, I have no clue, but they could certainly get disciplined for it theyre high level and immediately below the CEO. The OP doesnt need to approach it with compassion. Need to check to make sure your postings are accurate and up to date? It may not be an immediate option available now, but things like loan programs can be set up if the employer knows that it would be needed by their employees. People who live in their office by choice that Ive worked with have also been, frankly, jerks. update: my team excludes me from lunches because of my dietary restrictions, my office argued for 5 months about whether I could have an ergonomic chair, Im nervous about having to write up an employee, returning heavy office furniture when resigning, and more, our employee wants constant reassurance that hes good enough, my employees controlling spouse wont let her travel for work, owner wont do anything about our terrible coworker, employee never covers other peoples shifts, and more, employee forgets half of what I ask him to do, coworker swore at me in a reply-all, and more, updates: the shady investor, the needy boss, and more. is it bad to be alone with coworkers of the opposite sex? Because some of that discussion might be useful for this letter writer as well. wont solve the problem that he doesnt have a place to live. Depends on the local laws. In addition to having to pay thousands up front, you also need to have an acceptable rental history and credit score. If he does a lot of meetings there or a lot of people have to consult him in his office frequently, it would be a little weird/off-putting to be meeting with him in the space where you know he sleeps/hangs out. He eventually got caught and was let go. Yep. City/local code violation may be in play as well. Saying youre concerned about his safety sounds like a lame excuse to me. If Bob is a functional person he has to know that this could easily come to an end in short order. Lots of interesting advice elsewhere, so I just cant help but wonder, if Bob IS living in the office, what the heck does he do at the weekend? Unpaid Break and Required To Stay on the Premises?, Work and Employment, 20 replies Allowing Potential Employers to Access your LinkedIn Profile, Job Search, 9 replies Employees who sleep around with several other employees?, Work and Employment, 24 replies Do employees do this?, Work and Employment, 18 replies What is it, exactly, thats uncomfortable? nobody has made a Bartleby the Scrivener reference yet, what?! They were living in the ceiling of a library. If OP knows and didnt report it then the company could discipline OP. Like those endless ads for one weird trick! life hacks. I dont know what this dude is doing but be prepared to have compassion. I used to often find myself in San Francisco late at night a few hours drive from home. Either way, I dont think youll know without being really sensitive in approach to figuring this out. Security and maintenance wanted the guy to get fired, but management kept him on. Even with the eviction moratorium in place, lots of people were failed by support systems during this time. This combines to a total 15.3% tax employee wages up to the Social Security tax ceiling. The court reasoned that the Isners were like motel clerks, who might have to be on hand to check in customers but did not have to sit at the motel desk the entire evening. But just on a human level, leave the man be. Sorta sad how low he had landed in life and not out of his 30s, it all happened in the early days of crystal meth, before most of us know anything about the drug. Because in a lot of places its not? He kept a gym membership for showing and would sometimes be late for work due to traffic. No one caught on and this was well before covid. Not sure if this applies to the OP, but my office building hasnt re-opened the gym yet following the complete shutdown of the building for months during COVID. It is NOT TATTLING to report a health and safety issue. Depending on the role each Ive heard rumors/legends about Google employees doing this parking a big car in the company lot and sleeping on a mattress in the back, then using all the on-campus facilities (showers, gym, laundry, cafeteria) for all their basic needs. I feel for your situation, but my conscience is telling me to inform management.. I would actually tend to disagree that subjective personal discomfort, absent an obvious, actionable concern, is not enough reason to say something. But just being his office outside working hours with the door closed? All the OP needs to to is give the appropriate person a heads up. Cant wait to read it. We all thought it was such a weird request, but hearing your comment makes me think that to him it may have been perfectly normal! 5 applied, interpreting it to mean that only time spent actually working counted as paid time. There are also cute stories about congresspeople being roommates in group houses. Then his friend went home to visit family in the country, and I crashed in the friends now empty room. With a few exceptions (eg Fair houseing act, Section 8 housing subsidies) most rent related laws are local / state. Did he have a spare beer? There could a lot of reasons that are not desperation. > Its not her duty to protect the company from liability. I hope leadership can play a role in getting Bob the support he needs. In the absence of hard knowledge, I would personally default to MYOB. Yep. Youre using work property in a way that most workplaces would not likely allow. Will Bob get blamed if there is a fire/gas leak/break-in and he is there when he shouldnt be? I am sure if the guy could he wouldnt be living in the office, so I would just let him do his thing, let him figure his shit out. TBH I would look the other way. I have heard that a certain big box store allows people to stay in their cars overnight in the shops parking lot. It was quite sad; it wasnt by choice. Yeah, there is a third option here what this could be about: he is actually sleeping and using his free time in his van, but showers in the office. Basil E. Frankweiler ! Theres a reason some things inherently make us uncomfortable. No one is going to buy the whole I was terribly concerned about a possible gas leak and/or zoning infraction stuff. I dont know how people with bad credit find a place to live. In addition to liability and security reasons, theres zoning of the buildings commercial vs residential and they may not be allowed to have live in tenants. We had someone doing this for awhile. OP speaks up. Second would be one of those people who believe they are being extremely minimalist. As Alison said, there are some huge safety and liability issues at stake here. And they may actually have something available now that Bob just doesnt know about. Were trying to figure out why Bob getting dressed behind his closed office door makes you uncomfortable. Thats not ok. The cleaners need to be able to get in and clean and expect to clean a mess equivalent with an office, not living quarters. Right. I live near the office so have driven by at all hours and he is always here! But youre in a senior role that reports to the CEO. Should I tell someone or just let it go and hope leadership notices soon? Hed kept his home in the other state and just didnt want to sell and refused to rent a room here because it was a waste of money. You dont know what his situation is or how long hes been living there. I think I might come to Bob first, and frame it as Id like to know whats going on so when I bring this higher up I can help. Everyone has anecdotes of a person gaming the system like this, but lets not pretend its the rule: if a person is living at their office, more than likely its because they dont have any other options. And given that the OP explicitly says that its a lifestyle choice, its actually LESS likely. In the LWs shoes, I would leave this situation alone. If I wanted to work in a private living space, Id have done so. Back in the 1990s, I think 1997, dads company (very large company at that), had a manager who, turns out, basically lived in the office. I feel bad for the guy. Lawyer here, typically the standard isnt knows as a matter of fact but know or should have known. Staying here could cause issues for the company. But to just turn your workplace into your personal space is not okay. He also lied on his resume. If they rent the space, someone living there could be a violation of the terms of their lease. So it would make sense that the company would have similar insurance issues. Focus on whether this 2-month job is a place to stay, not Bobs situation.. He got a job with us, moving here from a thousand miles away. But in general I agree, yes, COLA for all . That this happened under the noses of the Feds does not surprise me in the least. (Or so we were told; I think firefighters probably always look for people in burning buildings but unfortunately my firefighter grandfather was no longer with us at this point and I never thought to ask another one.) This has to be approached from the lens of how can we keep Bob safe and housed and not how do we minimize liability for the company.. This year has been BANANAS (Ive taken 26 flights since last August), but my partner is doing well, our relationship is great, and on the work end of things, Im still happily employed. Everyone needs a little help now & then, even grown ups. Neither is talking to management solving his housing problem. Appearing tired, using the office kitchen, and taking breaks in his office seem like nothing to me. I admit that I hadnt thought about safety/liability issues brought up in this thread. I understand all the legal and health and safety argument, which are completely valid. And they can hire and fire at whim because its through an agency and/or theyre contractors. He would stay the night somewhere at work (some people suspected a wiring closet) and then would go home and shower after his wife left for work. The OP did mention coworker has a van. Also, if thats truly an average and not a median, the numbers are probably incredibly skewed upward. Not even two bad decisions necessarily two bad random events! And in some places a violation of any one of those could bring a heavy enough fine to shut down a smaller company. And also ignores the actual safety issues at play. Preparing meals in the office kitchen and spending time in his office afterhours with the door closed may or may not be allowed at your company, but I dont think those activities constitute living in the office.. As for requiring a license to HOUSE people? -Bob is present at odd hours It turned out that he and his wife were in the middle of a nasty divorce and sleeping at the office was kind-of his only option. However if she goes now, she is just reporting a seemingly odd situation. Why should he get to use the companys resources, such as electricity, heat, internet, and hot water outside work hours for free? But if I told on him and he ended up on the street I would also feel bad. My very own husband would totally have lived in a van when he was single, though Im sure he wouldnt have expected his employer to provide kitchen facilities and the like (and Im also sure he would have loathed it, though he denies this :-) ). If that makes you feel awkward, then thats your feeling. It was a small, shared office with ten desks, and two small closet-like rooms on either end that were intended for private phone calls. And how would workers comp work for this? But the judges all agreed that the tenant could have no possible defense and approved the evictions. It shows compassion for Bob while alerting higher ups to the potential liability of the situation. I read an article once about a guy who lived in a really expensive area and chose to live in his office. Its not wrong IF the employer knows its happening and has okayed it. Theyre proud that theyve found a way to cheat the man or to get someone else (poor office custodial staff) to clean up for them. Not saying there are no problems but the problems are often overstated by the media. A guy tried to give me 10 (this was a while ago so probably more like 20 now); he thought I was homeless. LW update without revealing identifying information, it was clear that this was a lifestyle choice for Bob so I took Alices advice. I walked down the hall to the conference room and there he was getting comfortable on the conference table with blankets and pillows. Looks like you were correct. I had a strong visceral reaction to the idea of telling on him to management. My current position is up in a year or two, and while Id like to *not* be geographically limited for a new search, the reality is that I likely will be, because otherwise this could be me. Wild. Im with Snark that if your discomfort is bc he has an odd lifestyle that doesnt actually impact you or the company, thats not actionable except for you to manage your feelings. It took me from May to August to even find one that was available to apply for that met my minimum requirements (which were not crazy ones, they were things like not clearly a shoddily flipped basement with a weird layout, minimal appliances, and at $1000 more a month than my current place). Federal regulations address three situations in which the sleeping time questions may arise: 1) employees on duty less that 24 hours, 2) employees on duty 24 or more hours, and 3) employees who reside on their employers premises or who work from home. Especially grown ups in stressful, isolating circumstances. In that case, he is invading yours, and you should report it. Someone in upper administration (AVP level) started living in his van in one of the parking lots on campus. It probably is! Then again, Ive never been very senior at work, so I suspect I personally would just let him know hes not selling it and then call it none of my business. My little sister lives in a similar situation (by choice!) Are you able to find housing? I preferred the closet. Dating a near-homeless man 15 yrs older than me wasnt my thing. I dont know if someone at that level of seniority *can* just be like oh well, who can say, not my problem? Typically, if youve been evicted in the past 7 years, landlords wont rent to you. I also thought your wording was really good. She also had a shared office, but did everything to minimize the impact on her office mates and hide that she was living there. Apartments are extremely thin on the ground right now, and have been since the current housing craze really got going. All we had were two laundry baskets of stuff. Definitely report this to your boss. Who knows why most obviously, of course, he could have lost his housing. It depends on whether OP is there during working hours or not. To me it is sad to have a decent job yet be unable to afford temporary housing, not even having a credit card to charge an air bnb or something. (This was at a three-letter agency known for attracting, uh, quirky individuals. I feel like the obvious solution here is to make a joke to Bob something like wow, dont you ever go home? and see how he reacts. I think this is ultimately where I land too. And I dont even think no windows is a requirement here, just adequate privacy (such as provided by curtains and cubicle walls). Saint Peter dont you call me cause I cant go / I owe my soul to the company store. In other words, its a risk (for lack of a better word) that youre willing to accept, but that the client hasnt even been made aware of. He is a cable company technician, his salary is modest but he gets a significant monthly housing allowance. Security Really? Which to me is not ok (in my experience these are the guys who never contribute to potlucks but are first in line and snag 8 Tupperware containers full) If someone is not making enough to afford housing thats a different conversation. Same for his wife retail job with a modest salary but a significant housing allowance. WebAn employee who resides on his employer's premises on a permanent basis or for extended periods of time is not considered as working all the time he is on the My work then tried to temporarily assign me a bed in a room where the other resident had just finally gotten a whole room to herself at age 35(!! I know of a business where one of the owners gave permission for someone to live there. There are tax consequences if an employer provides an employee with local lodging, either temporarily at a nearby hotel or permanently in Im sure he knows how to find apartment listings. A lot of the companies provide 3 squares a day plus gyms and other amenities. Truly affordable housing within commuting distance can be borderline impossible depending on the area. This might not be the case with Bob or he had a similar arrangement and took advantage of it. Interesting. Now lets lower taxes for the rich again! Havent heard any of them yapping about that lately so either they gave up the charade or someone in charge finally got pissed enough at the stupidity and put an end to it. WebAs you know, managing your numerous rental properties all on your own is a lot of work. The IT security manager came into work at six in the morning, and informed me that, when Id gone to the bathroom at 2:30 AM, an alarm went off. As long as its there!. Im not sure he doesnt go sub-harmonic in places. Theres a long history in New York City of spray-painting AIR (or artists-in-residence) on commercial-space buildings where artists were illegally living, due to many tragic deaths where firefighters assumed the buildings were empty overnight. OP, talk with Bob. I had a coworker who moved into the office, and it was the worrrrrrrrrst. He can go hunt and sleep in the van, and he hunts a LOT so he lives half of hunting season in his van, I swear. But in general its not necessarily safe to get over an uneasy feeling. Or hes decided that he can save a lot of money by not paying rent since most of his waking hours are at work. Gosh, I just never put it together. Temper justice with mercy. My station wagon can fit a real twin mattress or futon in the wayback when the rear seats are down. Wow, it seems like youre now recommending OP now go out of their way to intentionally kick this person out of their housing. I think he ended up in a homeless shelter for a while. Im very tired and misread plant locker room and kept thinking oh wow they had a whole locker room for plants?. I would probably pretend not to notice him living there, if it were me. Lot of vans and motor homes in their parking lots. Ever since I was a fort-building kid Ive daydreamed about living in a store, my school, a van, etc. Based on the letter, it seems hes sleeping in his van, not his office. Since OP is a peer, Id suggest talking to Bob first. Unequivocally, has she observed him sleeping in the office? I think this has gone unnoticed because most people are still working remotely, but I am coming in every day and it is very uncomfortable. Zoning. So, my question is whether or not he is sleeping there, and whether his out of office time is outside of working hours. Sure, maybe they can do those things, but an employee assistance fund/payroll advance/etc. Eventually, the bosses found out and he was told he couldnt sleep at the station but he lived in that van for several more years. Squatter rights do exist, but theyre different, especially in commercial property. WebEmployees Residing on the Employer's Premises on a Permanent Basis,For Extended Periods of Time or Working at Home. This is definitely the more thoughtful and humane approach, but its worth going into realizing that you might have to pivot on your heel and go to upper management with some or all of what he tells you. OP, I know its going to be hard to blow up this guys comfortable little arrangement, but you have to let someone know. With this usage model, a customer often buys or rents server-based software as a licensee, which is installed on their own servers or rented servers. Then, he got a little too comfortable and decided the womens bathroom was closer than the mens room, so he used the womens room when he got up in the middle of the night and walked in there in his underwear. Id be so worried Id be sending him back to live in his van over the winter Businesses that sell groceries, gas, health care supplies are exempt from the curfew. Right, someone would need to prove OP knew about it beforehand, and from what theyve written above, that doesnt seem possible at this point. Im not authorized to be there outside the buildings working hours and they are required to keep an accurate list of who is where (and when). Ya, thats the first thing that came to mind for me is he a tech worker in a city with inconceivably high rent? Its really not anyones business CERTAINLY not the OPs! I tend to default to none of my business a lot of the time. Well, that scenario can happen just as easily if you live alone anywhere. This is making me think of For All Mankind where the NASA director was secretly living in her office, and nobody knew except her admin. And honestly accidents happen, and an office isnt set up to be a home. Turns out theres tons of people, on average employed full time, that do that. Weird situation. You should also see if your new organization has an EAP. Why is there no compassion for the others affected by his choice? Agreed. Its likely a bad situation, so let coworker preserve some measure of dignity. She knows Bob occasionally is in his office outside typical core hours, that he occasionally looks sleepy, and that he hangs out in his office with a sign on the door to not disturb him. The Terminal. Women might pump milk, people might get changed in their office after cycling to work, whats different here? The fire hazard is a potential one, but the risk of Bob ending on the street/in serious trouble for me trumps that. This happened where I work on a college campus. This is not okay. Alive, anyway. Isnt it? Everyone just ignored this as we all figured hed work something else out eventually. should I be worried by how pushy an employer was with a job offer over a holiday weekend? And Im talking morals and ethics here, not legal obligation. He wasnt living at work, obviously. IMO living in a van is different than living in the office, though. +1 for this. He couldnt get into the country legally or something and was stuck there. I lived in a van. Mehran Karimi Nasseri lived in the departure lounge of Terminal One in Charles de Gaulle Airport for 18 years. Yeah, this happened to me once. Its obviously not nearly as urgent of a problem as a fire is, but insurance companies are going to view the situations quite similarly and thats before getting into zoning permissions. For a number of years I followed several blogs devoted to the FIRE movement financial independence, retire early. I get crashing after long work days or even if theres an emergency. WebWhat signs are required to be posted at an off-premises establishment, like a convenience store or grocery store or an on-premises establishment, like a bar or restaurant? It didnt end up coming to that, but it was on the table. I was going to say, I think this is a well known phenomenon in DC! (If Id found a way to live in the office back at that time, I wouldve in a heartbeat.) Since its a manager, my fanfic is that he broke up with an SO and decided to sleep in his office on the couch for a few weeks, just until (it blew over/he found something else/a meteor struck). Bob may well have been priced out of his area, and I highly doubt he is doing this to save money just because hes a cheapskate. I opened the door and asked whats up? No, but thats not the same thing at all. Reading the comments on this thread, I think that was the right choice. Many years ago, when I was a teenage college student, I ended up temporarily homeless and bouncing from hotel to increasingly sketchy hotel because I couldnt find a place to sublet for the summer (there were a variety of poor teenage life choices involved, mostly because I didnt realize how different it was to try to rent an apartment for 3 months as a 19 year old in the SF Bay Area rather than for 6-12 months as a long-established adult professional making good money in Not The SF Bay Area, since the only person Id ever seen anyone rent an apartment before was my newly-divorced dad I thought you just pretty much drove up to the leasing office at your preferred location and said one apartment please, I need at least two bedrooms). Was outside of the opposite sex intern walks in on Bob in his van etc... 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